Interview with Ben Wilder: Jesus in the Buddha Belt

Interview with Ben Wilder: Jesus in the Buddha Belt

Ben Wilder has spent two decades in Myanmar, finding ways to share Jesus in a place that is predominantly Buddhist. His book, Jesus in the Buddha Belt, releases on April 22. It tells the story of four people from Myanmar who encounter Jesus—and the tumultuous journeys that follow.

In my interview with Ben, he gave some insights into his life in Myanmar, and what led him to such a fascinating place.

How did you make the decision to go into missions?

Great question. That could be a book in itself 😃. The short of it is that God flipped my life upside down in college. I grew up in the church, but had a very self-centered view of Christianity that revolved around yours truly: Obey God and get blessings; disobey and get disciplined. That was the gist of it. My best friends growing up were actually the pastor’s sons. We were the biggest troublemakers in the church. In college, I sat under some Atheist professors and wrestled with God about it. I asked God to answer some very specific questions, and he emphatically did. After that, God flipped things upside down by showing me through the Bible that his plan is MUCH BIGGER than just me—it includes me, but reaches much much further. God’s plan is to bring hope and healing to the whole world—every tribe, language, and nation—40% of which are still considered unreached by the Gospel. WOW! That blew me away, and still does.

What led you to Myanmar? Did you do missions in other places before that?

I had an experience where I sensed God telling me to go and tell people about him who had never heard. But there are lots of places like that. He led me to Myanmar specifically through a series of events and relationships (isn’t this how he often works with us?). I took a few short-term trips to Myanmar to help a new missionary family, and they later invited me to join their team. I did missions in several other places before that, including other parts of the US, Mexico, and Kenya. “Jambo!” to any Swahili speakers out there.

Whats the most striking thing about doing evangelism in a Buddhist country?

Another great question! Reflecting on my experience, I think I was shocked by three concentric rings, each getting closer to the heart of my Buddhist friends. The outer ring was language. I had to learn a new language before doing anything else, and in the beginning it was so shocking how differently Myanmar people communicated—not just with different sounds, but with different ways of viewing and describing the world. As I grew in my understanding of the Burmese language, I encountered another ring—culture. Words weren’t enough to get to the heart of people. They just gave me more ways to offend them until I understood their ways better. Haha! I have by no means mastered these first two rings, but I have gotten familiar enough with both of them to get to the third and final ring between the gospel and people’s hearts—spiritual power. I didn’t really think about this beforehand, but this one probably fits really well with your blog theme.

Inside the rings of language and culture, people’s hearts are bound by invisible forces. After seeing this in people’s lives, I saw it more clearly in the Bible. For example: “…the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ…” (2 Cor 4:4), and “…our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of this darkness, against evil, spiritual forces in the heavens” (Eph 6:12).

Behind language and culture—which I do believe we have to communicate the gospel through—demons are the real power holding people captive, keeping them from Christ. Where I grew up, demons seemed like something from Bible times that didn’t interact with our lives today—so this has been a shocking discovery. Buddhist people (like anyone else who doesn’t follow Jesus) are bound by spiritual powers—and those powers must be overcome for them to experience new life in Jesus.

Tell us about the spiritual atmosphere in Myanmar. Aside from the obvious difference in religion, how does it differ from the West?

Across Southeast Asia, most people seem to be more in tune with the spiritual world than people in the West. I know there are exceptions to this, but I think many Westerners in my sphere (except for missionaries) tend to approach angels, demons, ghosts, etc. with skepticism. In the past I remember a friend telling me he saw a ghost. I was skeptical too. Myanmar people and others across Southeast Asia, on the other hand, approach things like this with inherent belief. They see spiritual powers (most often evil ones) interact with their lives on a daily basis and they practice rituals to placate them, avoid offending them, or to gain their assistance in times of need. For those who don’t know Christ, this is driven by fear. When these spiritually attuned people come to know Christ, however, they often immediately experience a deep relationship with him that I find less often in the more skeptical West. I’m not throwing stones here; I include myself. I am still trying to learn how to be more spiritual.

Can you tell us an interesting story from everyday life there?

My first Christmas in Myanmar was super interesting. I took a 24-hour bus ride with local friends to their hometown. Our overnight bus departed on December 24th, and—I kid you not—I didn’t realize it was Christmas until late afternoon on the 25th. The people I was traveling with were Buddhist, and I did not see a single evidence of Christmas anywhere along the way. No Christmas trees, no Christmas lights, no Christmas carols—not even Santa Claus! 20 years later, the commercial side of Christmas has reached further into rural Myanmar, but back then Christmas looked like every other day.

As our group took a break for the afternoon on Christmas, I reflected on my friends’ lack of interest in Jesus (I had been telling them about him along the way), and it hit me: “These people are so uninterested in Jesus.” I paused for thought. “And today is Jesus’s birthday!” The next day I took the stage at a concert and sang a song about Jesus to all the Buddhist people in my friends’ village. That ended up being a super cool way to celebrate the birth of Christ, but I will never forget that first Christmas in Myanmar when I forgot it was Christmas. It made me think about what made Christmas special and what it really meant.

Tell us about the writing side of things. When did you start to write?

I loved writing from elementary school on and was encouraged by my teachers and parents along the way. A creative writing class in high school fanned the flame, and I always thought, “Someday, I’d like to write a book.” But I mostly just wrote journal entries and emails to prayer supporters, until COVID struck and I found myself locked out of Myanmar. That’s when I started writing Jesus in the Buddha Belt: Untold True Stories of a Mighty God and Messy Mission. It’s funny how God works. I’m thinking about Paul Bunyan writing one of the bestselling Christian classics of all time because he was locked in jail for preaching the gospel. I’m not comparing Jesus in the Buddha Belt to Pilgrim’s Progress, but they both started because the authors were locked down 😃.

How would you say your experiences in Myanmar have changed or developed you as a person?

Profoundly! Myanmar (the epicenter of the Buddha Belt) has so many contrasts from where I grew up (the Bible Belt). Learning about Buddhism—not just from books, but from seeing how it plays out in people’s lives and society as a whole—has sharpened my understanding of Jesus and made me love him more. Seeing materially poor Myanmar people experience God in powerful ways has enlarged my view of God and challenged me to know Jesus more deeply. It has made me more spiritually minded, more appreciative of elders, and more convinced that while we all differ in many ways—we are all very similar at a basic level, and there’s a hole inside all of us that can only be properly filled by Jesus.

The positive ways God has changed my life through my experience in Myanmar is one of the reasons I wrote Jesus in the Buddha Belt. I am so thankful for these experiences and want to share them with others. Most people can’t move to the other side of the world, but I think they will enjoy meeting real people from there and hearing the good, bad, and ugly of their lives and the powerful ways they experience Jesus in the scary face of all kinds of hostility. I would love to introduce you to four of these amazing people through the book. In fact, I wrote their stories in first person so that it feels like you are sitting across the table from them.

How can people connect with you and get the book?

I would love that! The best way to connect with me is through jesusinthebuddhabelt.com. You can email me from there, check out the blog, and get get prayer resources and book updates.

The book will be released by William Carey Publishing on April 22. It will be available at missionbooks.org and, of course, Amazon. I would love to give you a free sample right now at jesusinthebuddhabelt.com/freechapter, before it’s available anywhere else. You can also pre-order the book at a 25% discount if you order before April 22. Here’s the link for that: https://missionbooks.org/products/jesus-in-the-buddha-belt.

Thanks so much for interviewing me. Tons of grace and peace to all of your readers and many many blessings on all that you are doing.

Podblog: Hold Your Hilltop

Podblog: Hold Your Hilltop

End Times Prophecies

Generally speaking, most Christians are aware of end times prophecy, and they’re aware that the closer we get to the end times referred to in Revelation that the darkness and evil in the world is supposed to increase. For many Christians, when they see darkness and evil and corruption increasing in the world, they take it as just another sign that we’re getting closer to the end. Whether you believe in a rapture or don’t believe in a rapture, it’s the belief that the end is imminent, so we need to just hunker down and ride it out till we go to heaven. 

This leads to a resigned attitude on the part of the body of Christ in the Earth. And it’s also based on the assumption that the end could happen any day. But if we look at the scripture, that’s not actually true. 

There are certain things that still have to happen before Jesus can return, and we don’t see them happening yet. There are still certain prophecies that haven’t been fulfilled. Take a look at 1 Thessalonians 5: “Now brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying peace and safety, destruction will come on them suddenly as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 

People are usually familiar with the concept of the day of the Lord coming like a thief in the night and destruction coming quickly. But the part that always caught my attention is where it says, “While people are saying peace and safety”, destruction will come. Even when I was in my young teenage years, if I looked around, people were not saying peace and safety. In fact, my whole life, and increasingly so, if you look around the world, people are saying war and death and destruction.

So this verse is referring to something that we still haven’t seen. Let’s look at 2 Thessalonians 2: “Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you brothers not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report, or letter supposed to have come from us saying that the day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.”

This verse is talking about the antichrist, the one they call the man of lawlessness. It says, “He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God. Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he’s taken out of the way, and then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus Christ will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.”

Notice what it says about the secret power of lawlessness:  “The one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he is taken out of the way.” 

Who is the one that now holds it back? 

It’s the church. It’s the body of Christ and the earth. We are the ones who are supposed to hold back the secret power of lawlessness. 

It says that power is already at work, and we’ve seen that for centuries. It’s the secret power, it works in secret until it comes into the open, and we’ve seen this throughout history. When Nazi Germany started to rise up, it was put forward as a positive thing until its true nature was revealed. It was the same with the communism of the Cold War. It was put forward as a positive movement. But communism has killed more people than all of the world wars. It’s the Antichrist system that is trying to come into manifestation in the earth. 

But it isn’t time yet, because there are these certain prophecies that haven’t yet been fulfilled.

In Matthew 24:14, Jesus is talking about the end times and he says, “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.” Well, the gospel hasn’t yet been preached to the entire world.

Unreached Corners

About fifteen years ago, I heard about this movement called the Back to Jerusalem movement. The idea behind it is that when the gospel left Jerusalem, it traveled predominantly westward. If it continues all the way around the world, then eventually it has to go back to Jerusalem from the east.

This is just one example, but there are multiple places and nations around the world where the gospel has never been, and those places have to be reached before that particular prophecy can be fulfilled. The end can’t come until the gospel is preached everywhere. 

Somewhere, perhaps in the South Pacific, there’s an island of natives whose technology hasn’t changed in something like 200 years. They’re a very violent tribe, to the point that anyone who sets foot on their shore will be killed. There was a young missionary sometime in the last decade or so, who decided that he was going to go evangelize this island. He got a, a guide to take him out there in a boat. As I remember the story, the guide wouldn’t even leave the boat to go onto the shore. He had the missionary jump off the boat in shallow water and go in. So this young missionary walked up with his Bible on this very primitive island, and when he set foot on the shore, they just killed him and took his body away.

There’s a spiritual stronghold on that island, and one day there will be someone or multiple people who go and evangelize that place, because the gospel has to be preached everywhere. But before the end can come, every place, including that island, has to be reached with the gospel.

What does that mean for us, and how does that relate to what we read in Thessalonians about the body of Christ holding back the secret power of lawlessness? Well, what would have to happen for all of these places to be reached with the gospel? Yes, there is an underground church in many places, but in order for the gospel to really be preached everywhere in the world, the body of Christ has to expand, has to have greater power, and has to be able to push back the darkness that is keeping it out of certain places. Christianity has to become stronger.

The End Times Church 

As the end times come, Christianity is not supposed to diminish. It not only has to become stronger, it has to gain the upper hand. It’s only when Christianity has the upper hand that it can get into every part of the world. Also, if you go back to the other verse that we read about, where people will be saying “peace and safety” — the only way that happens is if the church becomes very strong, so that it is predominant.

One more scripture we need to look at is Numbers 14:20-21, “Then the Lord said, I have pardoned according to your word. But truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the Lord.” (NKJV)

When God says, as I live, that’s a very serious promise, because he’s saying — If I don’t do this, then I, God will cease to exist. He says, as I live, all the earth will be filled with my glory. We haven’t seen that yet. God is everywhere in the earth, but his glory has not filled the entire earth. There are plenty of places where that glory is not manifesting. This is talking about a scenario where the gospel and the light of Christianity and the light of God is brought up to such a high level that it is all over the entire earth. That’s something the world has never seen.

If you put all of these scriptures together, it starts to build a picture of what this would have to look like—a time where people are saying peace and safety, and where the gospel is preached everywhere in the entire world, and where the glory of God fills the whole earth.

In order for those three things to happen, it would require the Church in the earth to be very strong, active, and full of power. That’s not a scenario that can happen if the church is hiding out in their hovels, waiting for the end to come. We’re supposed to grow in power, and we’re supposed to be actively pushing back the darkness.

A lot of Christians will make the assumption that God is just going to do all of this, and he is, and he does, but he’s chosen to do certain things through us. Jesus was often a little stern with his disciples, wanting them to do the things that he was showing them. He kept saying, I’ve given you an example, you go and cast out these devils. You go and do this. I’ve shown you what to do. There’s multiple times where they got in a bad spot and they ran to him for help, and he asked, where’s your faith? It seems pretty clear that we have a role to play. God is sovereign, and the power is his, but he still expects us to wield it.

A Behemoth Sleeping

Where does that leave us? Well, the church started to wake up a little, because they saw the antichrist system starting to emerge again. But now some people have started to relax, and think that we can go back to normal. But that’s the problem, because normal was what got us to the point of seeing the power of lawlessness start to rise.

On the whole, the church wasn’t really fighting back against darkness that was pushing and growing in the earth, and so we got to this point where it was just so bad the church had to do something. What that reveals is that if the church doesn’t fight back, then the antichrist system can come into power in the earth on our watch.

Over in Ephesians 6:13, it says, “Therefore put on the whole armor of God so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground. And after you have done everything to stand, stand firm.” 

We could paraphrase this as, “After you’ve done everything necessary to hold your position, then hold your position.” After you’ve gained the hilltop, then you have to hold the hilltop. And the reason is that the enemy isn’t lying on the ground bloody, they are regrouping. I heard a news story recently that there is a Satanic group in Kansas that wants to hold a black mass on the Capitol grounds. I don’t know how they’re going to do this, but these are their plans. And a couple of weeks ago, there was an SNL skit that went a little viral, because there was supposedly an actual occultic ritual taking place in one scene.

It is the occultic world that manifests as one of the main enemies to Christianity. That’s what we’ve seen in our generation. Some years ago, around 2015 or 2016, the pastor of the church that I was attending at the time pointed out that Washington DC was full of witchcraft. At the time, it came as a surprise to me.  It doesn’t seem strange now, but back then, it hadn’t occurred to me. But of course it would be that way, because it’s a seat of power. And it’s the seat of power in a nation that is predominantly Christian and is responsible for a lot of the gospel going around the world, so of course, Satan would want to gain a foothold there. 

If we consider all the other manifestations of darkness around the world, those entities haven’t crawled into dark corners. Not yet. There’s a point in a battle where you gain the upper hand, and there’s a point where the enemy is actually defeated. We haven’t come to that final point yet.

Holding the Hilltop with Spiritual Gifts

We need to not only hold our hilltop, but we need to take more ground, and take the light further. So how do we do that? How do we avoid going back to the same old thing that we’ve been doing up to now? 

From an individual perspective, if you have particular spiritual gifts that you know you are able to operate in, work to develop those. Find mentors and teachers who can help you develop those gifts.

And don’t stop praying. Don’t stop pressing in. Don’t resign yourself to just waiting around for the rapture. We’re in a different part of the battle now. Maybe we’re shifting from defense to offense, but there’s still a battle to be fought. And it’s not only about reaching the loss, although of course that’s important; but the other side of it is holding our ground and continuing to advance the kingdom.

We can also be open to greater displays of God’s power than we’ve seen before. I remember when I was a teenager, I was in a pretty large active youth group and a new member was visiting the church. She was asking one of our volunteer youth leaders about what the church believed, and asked if we believed in speaking in tongues. And the youth leader said, no. 

I’d never seen anyone speak in tongues at that particular church, but I’d never also heard anyone say that they didn’t believe it. It just wasn’t something that was emphasized. But when I heard someone actually say, no, we don’t believe that, I thought, well, do you believe all of the Bible or don’t you?

Yes, different congregations have different opinions about that, but there are some who are kind of frightened of supernatural displays of God’s power, or things that can’t be naturally explained. There’s no need to be so frightened that we won’t allow God to do something different—because he always does something different.

There are demonic forms of spiritual manifestation that aren’t of God, but if there’s a demonic version, then there has to be a God version, because Satan can’t create anything. The bottom line is, we need to let God out of our box and not be too timid to allow the Holy Spirit to do something just because we haven’t experienced it before.

We’re in a time now where we’ve seen modern day prophets appear and start to speak. And they’ve come under a lot of attack from the church. That’s the kind of thing that really holds the body of Christ back. But it’s those who are willing to flow with God, and see where the Holy Spirit is going, who will be the real victors in this fight.

Lastly, when it comes to developing your spiritual gifts, this doesn’t only mean the nine gifts of the spirit. It’s also talents, like artistic gifts. We often recognize these as God-given gifts, but when we think about using them for the church, it’s usually in the context of using dance or music for evangelism, like on as outreach or for a missions trip. Or we use music in worship—and these gifts are meant are meant to worship God, but they’re also for so much more than that.

The artistic talents that God gives us aren’t just so that God can sit back on a Sunday afternoon and be entertained. They have a fundamental spiritual purpose. I was at a Bible convention years ago, and they would have different worship music throughout the various sessions. There was one man who was very skilled at playing the trumpet, and one of the Bible teachers pointed out that he played the trumpet by the spirit.

At the time, that was a novel thought for me. People who are open to the use of tongues usually recognize that you can sing in tongues—you can sing by the spirit. But I thought to myself then, if you can play the trumpet by the spirit, then you can also dance by the spirit.

The biggest unrecognized aspect of these talents is that they’re not only for making beautiful worship, but they have direct application in spiritual combat. When music and dance and even painting and drawing becomes prophetic and is used in a prophetic manner, it can be utilized as a direct spiritual weapon to stop the plans of the enemy and carry forward the plans of the kingdom.

I think that’s one aspect of the church that’s going to become more prevalent going forward. That’s also part of what I meant when I said that we need to let God out of our box and be open to new ways of fighting, new ways of fighting in the Spirit. 

When I wrote Turning Pointe, I didn’t write it as a fantasy, because I believe that the events depicted there are true to life. I think that that’s what we’re going to see more of.

 So don’t surrender your hilltop, because the church has a long way to go. It will take all of us to represent the fulfillment of Jesus. 

All Scripture quotations, unless otherwise indicated, are taken from the Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV®. Copyright ©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.™ Used by permission of Zondervan.